Posts by Joe Grundy

29

Diddling, adjusting, changing Doctrines? Why not leave it alone?

by Terry in

i have kept on asking myself why the jw's put targets on themselves by constant diddling with their own doctrines?

why not leave it alone?.

mainstream christianity has fixed teachings.

Joe Grundy

Terry:

I don't think we're at odds here. My point was that all religions, all sects and divisions within those religions, seem to have changed, adapted, fiddled with, their doctrines and beliefs throughout history. One of the strongest examples is Islam, which claimed (uniquely, I think) to be the final revelation. Didn't turn out like that.

To me (a personal view) any deity which inspired a religion but couldn't or didn't maintain the original message is hardly a deity at all.

To expand on my point about the relative 'newness' of religions: I live in West Wales. Nearby is St Davids cathedral, about 1000 years old (king Alfred 'the Great') was involved there. It was a 'holy site' about 1400 years ago. You can see the effects of the Reformation (a relatively recent 500 years ago). Also St Govan's chapel (800 years old) built on the site of St Govan's rockface cleft hermitage(1400 years ago) (was he Sir Gawain of Round Table fame?). The local churches in my town are 800+ years old, so went through the Reformation.

There is no doubt that many local religious sites pre-date the Roman invasion and were pagan/druidic. There is still a noteable pagan/wicca presence here.

In my small town there are memorial sites where 'heretics' of different persuasions were burned to death.

May I recommend that you read the 'Shardlake' novels by C J Sansom? Tremendous read, and sets the scene for Reformation-era England.

29

Diddling, adjusting, changing Doctrines? Why not leave it alone?

by Terry in

i have kept on asking myself why the jw's put targets on themselves by constant diddling with their own doctrines?

why not leave it alone?.

mainstream christianity has fixed teachings.

Joe Grundy

"They don't have fixed teachings because it's a way of weeding out the disloyal ones. Only those who are truly loyal will remain."

I think that there's a lot to be said for that. Somewhat like Orwell's '1984'. If you betray that your thinking is not absolutely in line with the latest thinking or position, you're marked as actually or potentially disloyal.

5

31

"Ones"

by Joe Grundy in

(i never was a dub).. this is something which has intrigued me for a while.

i don't know whether it's dub-speak, or us-speak.. it's the use of the word 'ones' as in 'interested ones', 'worldly ones', 'disfellowshipped ones' and so on and so on.. in the 'normal world' we would probably use the word 'people'.. thoughts?.

Joe Grundy

Thanks for the comments. I wasn't sure whether this was a typical US English useage or particular dub-speak.

I realise, of course, that jw publications in English are written in the US and there will be differences. (Actually, WT should realise that presenting English language publications in US English may well turn off some Brits). I suppose that dubs will make an effort to use the language from the publications to show how dub they are.

WT is not alone in this of course. I was a cop for 30 years and I still cringe when I hear or read some police press releases. E.g. 'Police are looking for a 'male person' . No they're not, they're looking for a 'man'.

I am now a man of a certain age. 20 years ago when my son was 15 he would laugh if I tried to use 'teen speak'. Now, current teens would laugh at him if he tried to use it. (Revenge is sweet!).

Cults sometimes reveal themselves by their language. Normal thinking people tend to think 'why are they talking like that?'.

29

Diddling, adjusting, changing Doctrines? Why not leave it alone?

by Terry in

i have kept on asking myself why the jw's put targets on themselves by constant diddling with their own doctrines?

why not leave it alone?.

mainstream christianity has fixed teachings.

Joe Grundy

I think that JWs, like Mormons and others, portray/show their origins as relatively new religions from a relatively new country.

I have some thoughts on that.

29

Diddling, adjusting, changing Doctrines? Why not leave it alone?

by Terry in

i have kept on asking myself why the jw's put targets on themselves by constant diddling with their own doctrines?

why not leave it alone?.

mainstream christianity has fixed teachings.

Joe Grundy

I think that you're thinking too narrowly here - and too recently.

Some examples:

The original sect was (IIRC) a jewish messianic apocalyptic sect. Was changed to include gentiles and allow non-adherence to jewish laws.

Major differences between 'originals?' and gnostics.

Adaptations to facilitate adoption by roman empire.

Partial agreement of beliefs not until 4th century - but other branches/sects held to their own views.

Great Schism about 1000 years ago between RC church and Orthodoxy (still exists and keenly felt). Orthodox churches believe RC church left the truth.

Divisions within Orthodox church re autonomy and within RC church re papal succession.

And all of that's before we get to the precursors to protestantism, 500 or so years ago.

It's a similar situation in many religions. Buddhism, for example ( a much older religion) and islam (a much newer one).

29

Diddling, adjusting, changing Doctrines? Why not leave it alone?

by Terry in

i have kept on asking myself why the jw's put targets on themselves by constant diddling with their own doctrines?

why not leave it alone?.

mainstream christianity has fixed teachings.

Joe Grundy

"As you might expect of utterances of an Almighty Deity, no changes are necessary!"

The fact that changes have been made might lead one to question the existence of an almighty deity and the nature of such utterances - in relation to all religions.

29

Diddling, adjusting, changing Doctrines? Why not leave it alone?

by Terry in

i have kept on asking myself why the jw's put targets on themselves by constant diddling with their own doctrines?

why not leave it alone?.

mainstream christianity has fixed teachings.

Joe Grundy

"Mainstream Christianity has FIXED teachings."

I don't think so. The various christian sects and divisions have (as I understand it) a near 2000 year history of being at variance about their teachings and of changing, refining and adapting their teachings.

And what do you include as 'mainstream'?

35

July 2016 W T Article Gives Reassurance to Aging Publishers

by BluesBrother in

congregations are full of older ones who were led to expect the end when they were still young enough to work ,and stay forever young.

now these ones face a sparse old age with little provision set aside.

the article ""do not be afraid .

Joe Grundy

See this quote:

Clause 4.2.4 read for other charitable purposes including the relief of Congregation Members who are in conditions of need hardship or distress

from this recent thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5137752928550912/relief-congregation-members

11

Why did I take the red pill?

by stephanie61092 in

ignorance really is bliss and reality is harsh.

.

just having a bad, emotional day i suppose.

Joe Grundy

(I never was a JW).

"Ignorance really is bliss and reality is harsh."

May I offer these thoughts from a non jw perspective, and not directly relating to jw experiences (not that I discount the harm that the WT experience can cause).

Most of us, as we go through life, have to deal with stuff - personal tragedies, problems, etc., and come to the realisation that life can be harsh. It's certainly not 'fair', nor even reasonable sometimes.

The 'reality' of life is always there, even if we don't see it. I was a polce officer for 30 years and even now when I talk to friends who had more 'normal' or perhaps 'sheltered' lives I realise that their experiences (or lack of them) make a difference between us.

I think the important thing is how you (one) deal with the realisation that life can be harsh, cruel, and so on.

If you let it grind you down and take you over, you lose so much. There is so much about life, opportunities, experiences to celebrate and it's a waste to lose those and let the harshness take you over.

This is not the place for war stories, but I'll tell one. When I was much younger I went to a fatal road accident. A young child had been thrown through the windscreen and died (thankfully almost instantly) from horrific injuries. At the end of my shift I went home, picked up my son from his cot and realised how lucky I was. And I cried a bit.

Life is harsh - in many ways we're all lucky to be here. And it pays to recognise that and make the most of it.

2

E P O s

by Joe Grundy in

warning: this post is mysogynistic, non pc and who knows what else.. on a completely different forum - dealing with cars/motoring - i came across the term 'epo'.

it was used by a guy who wanted to buy a 'classic' car as a hobby' he encountered some opposition in the domestic sphere.. he used the term epo = 'enjoyment prevention officer'.

referring to his wife, i believe.. i couldn't possibly comment (but as a single (divorced) bloke i probably could!

Joe Grundy

"To be honest, I first thought your topic was going to be about sports doping or Lance Armstrong."

No, this is far more important!

PS: Is this yet another secret and exclusive society I'm not allowed to join?